Petr Shelisch, National Association of Hydrogen Energy
Release Date: 2009-05-22
Alternative power technologies are very underdeveloped in Russia. Could you please tell us first what the backdrop of hydrogen technology in Russia is?We created the first hydrogen-driven a Tu-155 plane in the early 80s, and we personally know people who piloted it. Buran, Russia’s space shuttle and Russian submarines also had fuel elements as power source.
We had an enormous advantage in early 2000 in hydrogen technology, because we had what nobody else had. But, things that were new and that were a sensation in 2003 when we showcased them during a forum in Washington, with 15 countries listening to us with open mouths, can’t be repeated every year. For many years we’ve been claiming that this is the only sector in Russia where we can be among the world leaders. But in other countries - Japan, America, in Europe - billions of dollars are invested, whereas Russia has allocated just a few million rubles. However, some companies have developed hydrogen projects, like Norilsk Nickel, thanks to the unique contribution of businessman Mikhail Prokhorov. During a joint meeting of the Russian Academy of Science and the Board of Directors of Norilsk Nickel he said that Russian presidents, who were looking for a national idea, could find it in hydrogen energy.
Russia has it all; abundant oil, gas, coal, installed power generation capacity, hydropower, geothermal, uranium, nuclear power… Why is hydrogen better for Russia?
As Dmitry Mendeleev, the famous Russian chemist and founder of the periodic system of elements, said, using oil for heating is the same as using banknotes. There’s better use for oil and gas than to burn in the furnace. Besides, at some point these resources will be exhausted. The generation that appears in 1,000 years will wonder how oil and gas disappeared… 1,000 years is not such a long term if we compare it with 4 billion years ago, when DNA, presumably, appeared.
Hydrogen can be obtained from a lot of resources: coal, biomass, natural gas, oil. Do you think that for Russia the best way towards a hydrogen economy is to transform the oil and gas sector from an exporting raw resources sector to a source of hydrogen?
Firstly, the most developed countries without oil and gas resources are already going along the lines of hydrogen economy. We do not doubt its environmental friendliness and believe that it can be cost-efficient in a reasonable period of time. We would like Russia to act not only as a consumer but as one of the main manufacturers on the future market of hydrogen technologies. It’s a pity that Russia is purely a consumer of the most advanced technologies because we’re used to the idea of having the strongest scientists, and we would like Russia to be an equal partner. But the idea of economic efficiency of hydrogen economy is based on faith: when I was a student, our professors were predicting that we were about to convert to thermonuclear synthesis installations, the same applies to fuel elements that I have mentioned.
Once I went to Anatoly Chubais (NE: former head of dismantled Russian electricity monopoly and present head of RUSNANO corporation), my friend and colleague from St-Petersburg, asking him for support for the hydrogen energy project. He told me that a kilowatt of installed hydrogen capacity cost US$3,000, when actually it was US$5,000, and then said: “Come again when the price is US$100”. During the following 5 years, the price of the hydrogen technologies got reduced to $3,000, while during the same period, the price of 1 kW of installed electric capacity rose to US$2,500 in Moscow and St-Petersburg, I would never imagine it would raise so much on his side!
500US$ is a considerable difference but not insurmountable with a bit more time…
In practice, the cost of installed capacity of hydrogen energy used to be much higher than that of thermal energy and now hydrogen power generation is even cheaper, but the problem is that equipment is too expensive and there’s no demand.
So, are costs and infrastructure the main problems for development?
We have encountered another problem - technical requirements. It is prohibited to fuel cars with hydrogen. According to standards approved eight years ago, hydrogen can’t be located closer than 150 m away from buildings housing people. So, our Association has drafted a law on technical regulations for safety of hydrogen equipment. The most important point made is that there should be different requirements are regard to minimal distances depending on the quantity of hydrogen. Older standards were targeted at high-tonnage chemical facilities. Cars fueled with gasoline with 5% of hydrogen will not be used because it contradicts the standards. But I believe that the direction that we develop - adding hydrogen to traditional fuel in car engines - is not only cost-efficient but could also pave the way to mass-scale usage of hydrogen because it does not require mass-scale development of infrastructure - only small hydrogen blocks at gas stations, new technical standards, training people, not yet requiring large quantities of hydrogen.
But, if Mr. Putin, when he was President, included hydrogen in the list of critical technologies, does it mean that the political will to develop the sector is there? How should the business follow this will and implement it?
Not quite. Concerning the officially stated priorities, hydrogen is only fifth in the list of priorities. The first priority of the Russian state is to develop hydrocarbon and nuclear power. Fortunately for us, nuclear-hydrogen technologies are very important for hydrogen development. In the late 70s and early 80s there used to be projects for using power of nuclear plants during nighttime for water electrolysis (from which hydrogen can be obtained). When we tried to revive them, it turned out that it is impossible to organize electrolysis production within a nuclear power plant for safety reasons, and if hydrogen production is located outside, law imposes market price for this power.
We hope that nuclear power generation will allow producing hydrogen power through pyrolysis in the nuclear reactor. We also think of using biofuel. When we started looking for hydrogen we found many chemical facilities that can provide us loads of hydrogen that is just burned away.
In the world, hydrogen energy develops as a locally-based production. Russia has a different geological and geographic structure but we have loads of unused biomass. Hydrogen power is perfect as future power.
It seems that, in Russia, hydrogen technology is still at an experimental level. You mentioned earlier Norilsk Nickel’s project. Are any companies other than Norilsk Nickel interested in hydrogen?
Norilsk Nickel is interested because it produces materials for hydrogen energy, like fuel elements. I have recently read an article published in the USA saying that President Barack Obama closed down a plant that manufactures fuel elements claiming that these are technologies that will work not sooner than in 15-20 years. He proposed hybrid cars with replaceable engines.
When California Governor Schwarzenegger began to drive hydrogen-powered Mercedes 7, it seemed that everyone would follow him. We looked at a world map of hydrogen gas stations; about one and a half years ago there were about 50 fueling stations, with half of them in California, 20 in Germany, 6 in China…and none in Russia. It’s a pity! I used to go to Brussels regularly to attend the European Hydrogen Platform, and I heard about developing a project of hydrogen fueling corridor project in Europe.
To progress from the experimental phase to the real economy, hydrogen projects should be demonstrated in real life at all levels - from production to end consumers. You have a project for Sochi, at which stage is it?
This project is our dream: to make Sochi a unique natural resource, with clean atmosphere and free from smoke. There’s a large number of construction equipment working there, and switching to hydrogen or natural gas is for us an opportunity to keep the environment clean, but, as I explained before, is a problem of priorities. When I talk to Anatoly Pakhomov, Mayor of Sochi, or people from Olympstroy, I see that their priorities are so different (from ours.) I feel like the pupil answering the teacher in the famous old joke: “I wish I had your problems!”
And now they’re all so quiet although they used to speak a great deal about hydrogen-powered buses, that everything would be hydrogen-powered, that Sochi would be the cleanest city…and now it takes so much effort to push the hydrogen projects and remind them of their own words. Like in the famous saying: “to promise marriage does not yet mean to marry!”
Could international cooperation for the Sochi project be an answer and are you looking for it?
We are not looking for cooperation because cooperation implies that each party brings in something from its side. Unfortunately, at the moment, we can’t take on serious responsibilities without financing. The situation right now is as follows; according to a law passed by the Krasnodar region (where Sochi is located); construction of one fueling station is planned in Sochi to be financed by private investments. The project will cost about 500 million rubles.
Mr. Shelisch, thank you for talking to us!
| Company: | National Association of Hydrogen Energy |
| Position: | President |
| Country: | Russian Federation |